Discussion:
Super 14 down in tv ratings
(too old to reply)
Fount
2009-04-15 00:50:35 UTC
Permalink
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so entertaining,
the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a stoppage (except
if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to receive intructions....).

The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
viper
2009-04-15 02:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to receive
intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
You forgot outrageous ticket prices, crap caterers, hair trigger security,
lousy parking,
uncomfortable seating and worst of all 18-25 years olds who can't stay off
the fucking phone for
5 minutes.

Viper
will_s
2009-04-15 03:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to receive
intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
duh, there happens to be a little thing going around in the World these days
called a recession
Fount
2009-04-15 03:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by will_s
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to receive
intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
duh, there happens to be a little thing going around in the World these
days called a recession
This was happening before any recession. Crowd figures have been dropping
for the past few seasons (apparently very pronounced in SA when Aussie teams
play), and with regard to pay tv there appears to have been a commensurate
rise in viewing for NRL and AFL matches. The bottom line is that people are
tuning out. The recession will play its part (as in the post about
outrageous ticket prices etc) but this game has problems that includes
things other than a recession. If you think that watching the Waratahs play
either as a paying spectator at the game or via pay tv is an enjoyable past
time then you and I have vastly different ideas of what constitutes
entertaining and tough rugby. I have gained far more pleasure watching some
of the NRL matches than watching the hapless water buffaloes known as the
Waratahs. Their games have been excruciating and it has come home to roost.
viper
2009-04-15 04:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fount
Post by will_s
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to
receive intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
duh, there happens to be a little thing going around in the World these
days called a recession
This was happening before any recession. Crowd figures have been dropping
for the past few seasons (apparently very pronounced in SA when Aussie
teams play), and with regard to pay tv there appears to have been a
commensurate rise in viewing for NRL and AFL matches. The bottom line is
that people are tuning out. The recession will play its part (as in the
post about outrageous ticket prices etc) but this game has problems that
includes things other than a recession. If you think that watching the
Waratahs play either as a paying spectator at the game or via pay tv is an
enjoyable past time then you and I have vastly different ideas of what
constitutes entertaining and tough rugby. I have gained far more pleasure
watching some of the NRL matches than watching the hapless water buffaloes
known as the Waratahs. Their games have been excruciating and it has come
home to roost.
The Pay TV observation is quite correct. Take two kids to a Waratah game in
half
decent seats, eat in Surry Hills beforehand (Il Berretto at least, is a
winner), score a carpark
at no cost and it's still a $200 night out. Bearable if the quality of the
Rugby is up there,
but frankly I get much more enjoyment out of Saturdays at my local Club, or
on Sundays
with my U/16 maggots...........both much more like 'real' Rugby. I've also
decided that if
we are to keep Foxtel, we'll get some use out of it

Viper
will_s
2009-04-16 09:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fount
Post by will_s
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to
receive intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
duh, there happens to be a little thing going around in the World these
days called a recession
This was happening before any recession. Crowd figures have been dropping
for the past few seasons (apparently very pronounced in SA when Aussie
teams play), and with regard to pay tv there appears to have been a
commensurate rise in viewing for NRL and AFL matches. The bottom line is
that people are tuning out. The recession will play its part (as in the
post about outrageous ticket prices etc) but this game has problems that
includes things other than a recession. If you think that watching the
Waratahs play either as a paying spectator at the game or via pay tv is an
enjoyable past time then you and I have vastly different ideas of what
constitutes entertaining and tough rugby. I have gained far more pleasure
watching some of the NRL matches than watching the hapless water buffaloes
known as the Waratahs. Their games have been excruciating and it has come
home to roost.
I saw the try feast in Blues v Highlanders and was not that impressed. I
enjoy the tough football that the Tahs play but must admit a few more tries
wouldnt go astray. What hasnt impressed me are the numerous handling errors
and lack of planning in the Tahs play. All I can say if you find them
excruciating then dont watch them. And I have watched a few NRL matches and
hate it. Saw Tommy on NRL on Fox and he was spot on with his comments. I use
to be a real League fan and grew up playing and watching it but not any more
Simon S-B
2009-04-16 08:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by will_s
Post by Fount
And crowd attendances particularly in Sydney. Reported in yesterday's
Herald. Who'd have thought? What with the Waratahs being so
entertaining, the rules so easy to interpret and the game with hardly a
stoppage (except if someone wants a drink, wants a rest, needs to receive
intructions....).
The people in charge are doing a mighty job of fucking this great game.
duh, there happens to be a little thing going around in the World these
days called a recession
Not buying that. The UK is obviously included in that global recession, and
GP grounds are selling out every week. For the European tournaments, they're
having to move the games to football stadiums to cope with the demand.
DC
2009-04-16 18:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon S-B
Not buying that. The UK is obviously included in that global recession,
and GP grounds are selling out every week.
Including Madejeski & Vicarage Road?
Big P
2009-04-15 14:38:28 UTC
Permalink
I appologise for the length of this reply

Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc

In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years. The Waratahs seem quite lethargic
ambling up to linouts in slo mo even when needing to play catch up with time
running out when they are behind. There appears a total lack of urgency, and
this has been evident for several seasons.Even last year making the finals
seemed a non event as a win by the Crusaders seemed inevitable. The Crusader
domination has made the comp boring. Even the RL crowds in NZ seem higher
that the big S12 games. SA has some good crowds but as the Lions and the
Cheetahs seemingly being inept has made those games a turn off, especially
when shown at 2am in Oz - No wonder only 1900 watched such a Brumbies game
on Fox the other week. The Reds have been cellar dwellers for several years
The move to Suncorp from Ballymore seems to be a failure as the ground
appears almost empty. The Force had initial great support but their onfield
performances have been too erratic. The Quokka incident and the Firepower
fiasco could not have happened at a worse time and apparently the fans are
turned off by games at the round Subiaco Oval as the spectators are too far
from the field. Maybe the chance to play at the new rectangular stadium will
help (whenever it comes on line). The fact that Matt Giteau is leaving will
not help though. The Brumbies do not seem to have recovered from the loss of
Gregan and Larkham as well as Joe Roff, Jeremy Paul and other high profile
players. Mortlock and Smith are at the end of there careers and there are no
"household names" to take their place, apart from the return of Giteau.

The AFL and NRL have the artificial draft + salary cap which tends to make
the talent spread fairly even amongst all the teams. RL gets about 6 pages
of coverage in the Telegraph compaired to 1/2 to 1 page on Rugby. Matches
between OS teams get 1 sentence usually describing the result.The newspaper
coverage of school games and club matches is now virtually non existant.
Club game attendances seem to be waning, and it will be interesting to see
if this changes with the filtering back oh S14 and Wallaby players. A big
problem is that apart from the occasional test there is no free to air
coverage which limits the exposure of the code to potentional new converts.
A few years ago a Joey's v Riverview game on ABC outrated a Swans game! In
Sydney the NSWRU seems to have abandoned the west and north west to League
and AFL. The local public schools rarely get promotional visits etc.

The Wallabies themselves have been uninspiring for a few years as well, with
only occasional challenges to the Boks and Blacks. The rot really set in
with the pedestrian performance at RWC 2007. Though financially successful
and ratings successful (in NH) the tournament was seen as a dud in the SH.
The improvement in teams such as Argentina, Georgia and some of the Pacific
nations was a boon, but the big games weer often disappointing. The terrible
Wallabies v Boks game at the Olympic Stadium was a disaster, as was removing
the Bledisloe Cup from Sydney for 2 years. Even this traditional highlight
has suffered with the game last year in Sydney well short of selling out.
The fact that this series is now stretched to 4 games a year is a worry, and
as pointed out in the Herald's editorial today a de-valuing of the product.
ANZ stadium has become a major turn off, (other codes included) as it is a
soul-less wasteland. The pressure to increase the Bledisloe games to try to
make money is understandable, but this is compounded by the European teams
arriving pre the Tri-nations being B or C teams lacking in top name players
and in fact a waste of time and attracting diminishing crowds.

As is also pointed out in the Herald Editorial the game itself has become a
turn off. It needs "sexing up" it is not a trendy place to be. The ELVs are
not the universal panacea they were hoped to be. Matches are still often
decided by inconsistent referees who still think that the game revolves
around them (Has Matt Goddard learned is lesson?) A lot of bonus points are
also decided by dodgy refereeing as well.

The ELVs are a big improvement but do not go far enough. A lot of going over
the top and bridging is permitted as is coming in from the side. The
abandoning of rucking has been a disaster as the breakdown now resembles a
gridiorn type arrangement with minimal forwards commited to the ruck. Too
often the game stops with the ball sitting at the back of the ruck while
the half decides what to do. If a player does try to contest by coming
through the gate and counter-rucking he is penalised for off side. The
abandonment of the rolling maul has aggravated this. The problem previosly
was that Refs hardly ever called "use it" when the maul stopped or went
backwards from good defensive play, and the usual result was a penalty for
pulling down the maul which had become a legalised form of truck and
trailer.

Defense has become much more dominant, and this has not been helped by the
Refs again , (and "Assistant" Refs ) not enforcing the "locks feet" law.
This is especially noticible when play is close to the line. Often the
banana defence results in the outside centre caught behind the gain line. A
lot of this results in the tendency for kicking, which often is of poor
quality, especially the Aussie teams.

The tap kick/penalty debate seems to be the most controversial NH v SH
argument but this is a sideshow. In a recent match Dickinson threatened to
revert from tap kicks to full arm penalties because of repeated
infringements. Is he allowed to do this under the laws, or is the only
option the dreaded Yellow Card? (Matt Goddard Sic)

The changes I feel the ELVs neglected

1) 5 metre law at rucks and mauls (Even when badly reffed this would creat
more space for attack)

2) Accidently collapsed scrum when the ball is at the back - compulsory free
kick to the team in possession (stops a lot of unnecessary re-sets)

3) Uncontested mark in 22 - scrum with feed to defending team from where the
ball was kicked (should help reduce aimless kicking)

4) Unsuccessful dropped goal - Penalty from middle of 22 ( Makes players
think twice about the"soft" option, and makes the 3 points if successful
more worthwhile)

The one thing that has not changed is the ethos of the game . The
friendships, the camararderie, the socialising, the travel, being able to
sit next to rabid supporters but still share a joke and a laugh even when
your team loses. This is the biggest thing that non Rugby folk miss out on.
Cheers Phil
Uncle Dave
2009-04-15 15:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big P
I appologise for the length of this reply
Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years.
I hadn't thought about that before, but it is definitely a big
factor. The AFL and NRL have those local rivalries and while QLD-NSW
will always provide a spark in any sport but it seems to me that a
real problem is that there isn't enough consistency among the Aussie
teams to make the all-Oz games big events in the same way as, for
example, the SOO. Yes, a city the size of Sydney might reasonably be
expected to have a derby game. In S12/14 history, only in 2001 and
2002 were there two teams from Oz in the last four which might not
tell the whole story (and I never followed it closely enough to know),
but the implication is that all-Oz games are usually not going to be
the most competitive, ergo, won't generate as much interest as one
might expect.

Having said that, the real problem may lie in the fact that Aussie
rugby - in the finest traditions of that never-say-die country - has
been pissing heroically into the wind for twenty plus years. Rugby
union is what? The forth most popular code in the country would be my
guess now. That's just from observing the rise of soccer and knowing
the already entrenched Aussie Rules and League followings. I'd say
that they've done extraordinarily well in the last twenty years, much
better than one would have thought possible thirty years ago. In a
limited - and extremely competitive - market such as Aussie sports,
the effects of the ebb and flow of market share are going to be more
apparent than elsewhere.

Please, let's not have any more ELVs to try and compensate, try a
pragmatic re-structuring of the S14 into national conferences, add
Japan, PI and whoever but don't change the laws they're fine.

UD

UD
Andrew Dunford
2009-04-16 01:03:10 UTC
Permalink
"Uncle Dave" <***@t-online.de> wrote in message news:acb7dfba-8d3b-4934-adf1-***@l1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

<snip>
Post by Uncle Dave
Please, let's not have any more ELVs to try and compensate, try a
pragmatic re-structuring of the S14 into national conferences, add
Japan, PI and whoever but don't change the laws they're fine.
Whether the current Laws are fine or not, we should know by now that
constantly changing them in order to artificially make rugby 'better' does
not work.

I understand the need for market share etc. but the problem with attracting
new audiences is that they're notoriously fickle and essentially impossible
to please. My ethos with sport is that one should never try to convince
anybody to enjoy a particular sport - you either 'get it' and are drawn to
it, or not. Naturally I do not work in the marketing department...

Andrew
p***@gmail.com
2009-04-16 08:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Dave
Post by Big P
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years.
I hadn't thought about that before, but it is definitely a big
factor.  The AFL and NRL have those local rivalries and while QLD-NSW
will always provide a spark in any sport but it seems to me that a
real problem is that there isn't enough consistency among the Aussie
teams to make the all-Oz games big events in the same way as, for
example, the SOO.  Yes, a city the size of Sydney might reasonably be
expected to have a derby game.  In S12/14 history, only in 2001 and
2002 were there two teams from Oz in the last four which might not
tell the whole story (and I never followed it closely enough to know),
but the implication is that all-Oz games are usually not going to be
the most competitive, ergo, won't generate as much interest as one
might expect.
Interstate/territory games tend to be very goddamn competitive, to the
extent that they should carry a caveat: Warning - contents may bore!

Typically, the games are dour and often bad-tempered. Both sides
really, really don't wanna lose.

This is often true of RL SoO, of course, but in that instance it is a
triumph of marketing over dispassionate observation.
Post by Uncle Dave
Having said that, the real problem may lie in the fact that Aussie
rugby - in the finest traditions of that never-say-die country - has
been pissing heroically into the wind for twenty plus years.  Rugby
union is what?  The forth most popular code in the country would be my
guess now.  That's just from observing the rise of soccer and knowing
the already entrenched Aussie Rules and League followings.  I'd say
that they've done extraordinarily well in the last twenty years, much
better than one would have thought possible thirty years ago.  In a
limited - and extremely competitive - market such as Aussie sports,
the effects of the ebb and flow of market share are going to be more
apparent than elsewhere.
Fucked if I know why RU in Oz is in a slump at present, in respect of
crowd viewer numbers. I will essay, however, that not being on FTA TV
- except for the odd Test - cannot be a good thing.
Post by Uncle Dave
Please, let's not have any more ELVs to try and compensate, try a
pragmatic re-structuring of the S14 into national conferences, add
Japan, PI and whoever but don't change the laws they're fine.
Tr**l!


CP
p***@gmail.com
2009-04-16 09:42:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Uncle Dave
Post by Big P
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years.
I hadn't thought about that before, but it is definitely a big
factor.  The AFL and NRL have those local rivalries and while QLD-NSW
will always provide a spark in any sport but it seems to me that a
real problem is that there isn't enough consistency among the Aussie
teams to make the all-Oz games big events in the same way as, for
example, the SOO.  Yes, a city the size of Sydney might reasonably be
expected to have a derby game.  In S12/14 history, only in 2001 and
2002 were there two teams from Oz in the last four which might not
tell the whole story (and I never followed it closely enough to know),
but the implication is that all-Oz games are usually not going to be
the most competitive, ergo, won't generate as much interest as one
might expect.
Interstate/territory games tend to be very goddamn competitive, to the
extent that they should carry a caveat: Warning - contents may bore!
Typically, the games are dour and often bad-tempered.  Both sides
really, really don't wanna lose.
This is often true of RL SoO, of course, but in that instance it is a
triumph of marketing over dispassionate observation.
Post by Uncle Dave
Having said that, the real problem may lie in the fact that Aussie
rugby - in the finest traditions of that never-say-die country - has
been pissing heroically into the wind for twenty plus years.  Rugby
union is what?  The forth most popular code in the country would be my
guess now.  That's just from observing the rise of soccer and knowing
the already entrenched Aussie Rules and League followings.  I'd say
that they've done extraordinarily well in the last twenty years, much
better than one would have thought possible thirty years ago.  In a
limited - and extremely competitive - market such as Aussie sports,
the effects of the ebb and flow of market share are going to be more
apparent than elsewhere.
Fucked if I know why RU in Oz is in a slump at present, in respect of
crowd viewer numbers.  
Whoops...crowd AND view numbers (live and ont'telly, that is).


CP
Uncle Dave
2009-04-16 10:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Uncle Dave
Post by Big P
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years.
I hadn't thought about that before, but it is definitely a big
factor.  The AFL and NRL have those local rivalries and while QLD-NSW
will always provide a spark in any sport but it seems to me that a
real problem is that there isn't enough consistency among the Aussie
teams to make the all-Oz games big events in the same way as, for
example, the SOO.  Yes, a city the size of Sydney might reasonably be
expected to have a derby game.  In S12/14 history, only in 2001 and
2002 were there two teams from Oz in the last four which might not
tell the whole story (and I never followed it closely enough to know),
but the implication is that all-Oz games are usually not going to be
the most competitive, ergo, won't generate as much interest as one
might expect.
Interstate/territory games tend to be very goddamn competitive, to the
extent that they should carry a caveat: Warning - contents may bore!
Typically, the games are dour and often bad-tempered.  Both sides
really, really don't wanna lose.
This is often true of RL SoO, of course, but in that instance it is a
triumph of marketing over dispassionate observation.
Maybe, but those games are certainly passionate, though we managed to
pick the one that wasn't to attend :-( Looked forward to being able
to do that for years, and so we were over the moon to find that one of
the stays in Brisbane on the Lions tour in 2001 coincided with SOO3.
I bought tickets well in advance and in the event after the first two
games the series was tied so that was a wise move. The game was so
one-sided as to be boring. I did get Laurence Dallaglio's autograph
on the programme though (and, later, Alfie Langer's too) which is, to
say the least, unusual :-)

SOO has been on bloody Setanta the last couple of years so I've not
bothered with it, but it used to be a real highlight of our viewing
year and not just because of the marketing hype.

Cheers

UD
Bobs
2009-04-16 10:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big P
I appologise for the length of this reply
Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years. The Waratahs seem quite lethargic
ambling up to linouts in slo mo even when needing to play catch up with time
running out when they are behind. There appears a total lack of urgency, and
this has been evident for several seasons.Even last year making the finals
seemed a non event as a win by the Crusaders seemed inevitable. The Crusader
domination has made the comp boring. Even the RL crowds in NZ seem higher
that the big S12 games. SA has some good crowds but as the Lions and the
Cheetahs seemingly being inept has made those games a turn off, especially
when shown at 2am in Oz - No wonder only 1900 watched such a Brumbies game
on Fox the other week. The Reds have been cellar dwellers for several years
The move to Suncorp from Ballymore seems to be a failure as the ground
appears almost empty. The Force had initial great support but their onfield
performances have been too erratic. The Quokka incident and the Firepower
fiasco could not have happened at a worse time and apparently the fans are
turned off by games at the round Subiaco Oval as the spectators are too far
from the field. Maybe the chance to play at the new rectangular stadium will
help (whenever it comes on line). The fact that Matt Giteau is leaving will
not help though. The Brumbies do not seem to have recovered from the loss of
Gregan and Larkham as well as Joe Roff, Jeremy Paul and other high profile
players. Mortlock and Smith are at the end of there careers and there are no
"household names" to take their place, apart from the return of Giteau.
The AFL and NRL have the artificial draft + salary cap which tends to make
the talent spread fairly even amongst all the teams. RL gets about 6 pages
of coverage in the Telegraph compaired to 1/2 to 1 page on Rugby. Matches
between OS teams get 1 sentence usually describing the result.The newspaper
coverage of school games and club matches is now virtually non existant.
Club game attendances seem to be waning, and it will be interesting to see
if this changes with the filtering back oh S14 and Wallaby players. A big
problem is that apart from the occasional test there is no free to air
coverage which limits the exposure of the code to potentional new converts.
A few years ago a Joey's v Riverview game on ABC outrated a Swans game! In
Sydney the NSWRU seems to have abandoned the west and north west to League
and AFL. The local public schools rarely get promotional visits etc.
The Wallabies themselves have been uninspiring for a few years as well, with
only occasional challenges to the Boks and Blacks. The rot really set in
with the pedestrian performance at RWC 2007. Though financially successful
and ratings successful (in NH) the tournament was seen as a dud in the SH.
The improvement in teams such as Argentina, Georgia and some of the Pacific
nations was a boon, but the big games weer often disappointing. The terrible
Wallabies v Boks game at the Olympic Stadium was a disaster, as was removing
the Bledisloe Cup from Sydney for 2 years. Even this traditional highlight
has suffered with the game last year in Sydney well short of selling out.
The fact that this series is now stretched to 4 games a year is a worry, and
as pointed out in the Herald's editorial today a de-valuing of the product.
ANZ stadium has become a major turn off, (other codes included) as it is a
soul-less wasteland. The pressure to increase the Bledisloe games to try to
make money is understandable, but this is compounded by the European teams
arriving pre the Tri-nations being B or C teams lacking in top name players
and in fact a waste of time and attracting diminishing crowds.
As is also pointed out in the Herald Editorial the game itself has become a
turn off. It needs "sexing up" it is not a trendy place to be. The ELVs are
not the universal panacea they were hoped to be. Matches are still often
decided by inconsistent referees who still think that the game revolves
around them (Has Matt Goddard learned is lesson?) A lot of bonus points are
also decided by dodgy refereeing as well.
The ELVs are a big improvement but do not go far enough. A lot of going over
the top and bridging is permitted as is coming in from the side. The
abandoning of rucking has been a disaster as the breakdown now resembles a
gridiorn type arrangement with minimal forwards commited to the ruck. Too
often the game stops with the ball sitting at the back of the ruck while
the half decides what to do. If a player does try to contest by coming
through the gate and counter-rucking he is penalised for off side. The
abandonment of the rolling maul has aggravated this. The problem previosly
was that Refs hardly ever called "use it" when the maul stopped or went
backwards from good defensive play, and the usual result was a penalty for
pulling down the maul which had become a legalised form of truck and
trailer.
Defense has become much more dominant, and this has not been helped by the
Refs again , (and "Assistant" Refs ) not enforcing the "locks feet" law.
This is especially noticible when play is close to the line. Often the
banana defence results in the outside centre caught behind the gain line. A
lot of this results in the tendency for kicking, which often is of poor
quality, especially the Aussie teams.
The tap kick/penalty debate seems to be the most controversial NH v SH
argument but this is a sideshow. In a recent match Dickinson threatened to
revert from tap kicks to full arm penalties because of repeated
infringements. Is he allowed to do this under the laws, or is the only
option the dreaded Yellow Card? (Matt Goddard Sic)
The changes I feel the ELVs neglected
1) 5 metre law at rucks and mauls (Even when badly reffed this would creat
more space for attack)
2) Accidently collapsed scrum when the ball is at the back - compulsory free
kick to the team in possession (stops a lot of unnecessary re-sets)
3) Uncontested mark in 22 - scrum with feed to defending team from where the
ball was kicked (should help reduce aimless kicking)
4) Unsuccessful dropped goal - Penalty from middle of 22 ( Makes players
think twice about the"soft" option, and makes the 3 points if successful
more worthwhile)
The one thing that has not changed is the ethos of the game . The
friendships, the camararderie, the socialising, the travel, being able to
sit next to rabid supporters but still share a joke and a laugh even when
your team loses. This is the biggest thing that non Rugby folk miss out on.
Cheers Phil
Lots of reasons for this, the two titans of Aussie rugby are boring
being the main one.

NSW are just a boring team these days. Sorry, but they are. They play
like robots.

Queensland are a shadow of their great (or at least good) 1990's team.
They won the Super Ten twice. Now they barely win a game. And they're
even more boring.

Say what you like about the Blues, but they're never boring. Currently
conceded and scored the most tries.
--
What do Michael Jackson and Santa Claus have in common?

They both leave little boys' rooms with an empty sack
Mike Thompson
2009-04-18 07:20:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bobs
Post by Big P
I appologise for the length of this reply
Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years. The Waratahs seem quite lethargic
ambling up to linouts in slo mo even when needing to play catch up with time
running out when they are behind. There appears a total lack of urgency, and
this has been evident for several seasons.Even last year making the finals
seemed a non event as a win by the Crusaders seemed inevitable. The Crusader
domination has made the comp boring. Even the RL crowds in NZ seem higher
that the big S12 games. SA has some good crowds but as the Lions and the
Cheetahs seemingly being inept has made those games a turn off, especially
when shown at 2am in Oz - No wonder only 1900 watched such a Brumbies game
on Fox the other week. The Reds have been cellar dwellers for several years
The move to Suncorp from Ballymore seems to be a failure as the ground
appears almost empty. The Force had initial great support but their onfield
performances have been too erratic. The Quokka incident and the Firepower
fiasco could not have happened at a worse time and apparently the fans are
turned off by games at the round Subiaco Oval  as the spectators are too far
from the field. Maybe the chance to play at the new rectangular stadium will
help (whenever it comes on line). The fact that Matt Giteau is leaving will
not help though. The Brumbies do not seem to have recovered from the loss of
Gregan and Larkham as well as Joe Roff, Jeremy Paul and other high profile
players. Mortlock and Smith are at the end of there careers and there are no
"household names" to take their place, apart from the return of Giteau.
The AFL and NRL have the artificial draft + salary cap which tends to make
the talent spread fairly even amongst all the teams. RL gets about 6 pages
of coverage in the Telegraph compaired to 1/2  to 1 page on Rugby. Matches
between OS teams get 1 sentence usually describing the result.The newspaper
coverage of school games and club matches is now virtually non existant.
Club game attendances seem to be waning, and it will be interesting to see
if this changes with the filtering back oh S14 and Wallaby players. A big
problem is that apart from the occasional test there is no free to air
coverage which limits the exposure of the code to potentional new converts.
A few years ago a Joey's v  Riverview game on ABC outrated a Swans game! In
Sydney the NSWRU seems to have abandoned the west and north west to League
and AFL. The local public schools rarely get promotional visits etc.
The Wallabies themselves have been uninspiring for a few years as well, with
only occasional challenges to the Boks and Blacks. The rot really set in
with the pedestrian  performance at RWC 2007. Though financially successful
and ratings successful (in NH) the tournament was seen as a dud in the SH.
The improvement in teams such as Argentina, Georgia and some of the Pacific
nations was a boon, but the big games weer often disappointing. The terrible
Wallabies v Boks game at the Olympic Stadium was a disaster, as was removing
the Bledisloe Cup from Sydney for 2 years. Even this traditional highlight
has suffered with the game last year in Sydney  well short of selling out.
The fact that this series is now stretched to 4 games a year is a worry, and
as pointed out in the Herald's editorial today a de-valuing of the product.
ANZ stadium has become a major turn off, (other codes included) as it is a
soul-less wasteland. The pressure to increase the Bledisloe games to try to
make money is understandable, but this is compounded by the European teams
arriving pre the Tri-nations being B or C teams lacking in top name players
and in fact a waste of time and attracting diminishing crowds.
As is also pointed out in the Herald Editorial the game itself has become a
turn off. It needs "sexing up" it is not a trendy place to be. The ELVs are
not the universal panacea they were hoped to be. Matches are still often
decided by inconsistent referees who still think that the game revolves
around them (Has Matt Goddard learned is lesson?) A lot of bonus points are
also decided by dodgy refereeing as well.
The ELVs are a big improvement but do not go far enough. A lot of going over
the top and bridging is permitted as is coming in from the side. The
abandoning of rucking has been a disaster as the breakdown now resembles a
gridiorn type arrangement with minimal forwards commited to the ruck. Too
often the game stops with the ball sitting at the back of the  ruck while
the half decides what to do. If a player does try to contest by coming
through the gate and counter-rucking he is penalised for off side. The
abandonment of the rolling maul has aggravated this. The problem previosly
was that Refs hardly ever called "use it" when the maul stopped or went
backwards from good defensive play, and the usual result was a penalty for
pulling down the maul which had become a legalised form of truck and
trailer.
Defense has become much more dominant, and this has not been helped by the
Refs again , (and "Assistant" Refs ) not enforcing the "locks feet" law.
This is especially noticible when play is close to the line. Often the
banana defence results in the outside centre caught behind the gain line. A
lot of this results in the tendency for kicking, which often is of poor
quality, especially the Aussie teams.
The tap kick/penalty debate seems to be the most controversial NH v SH
argument but this is a sideshow. In a recent match Dickinson threatened to
revert from tap kicks to full arm penalties because of repeated
infringements. Is he allowed to do this under the laws, or is the only
option the dreaded Yellow Card? (Matt Goddard Sic)
The changes I feel the ELVs neglected
1) 5 metre  law at rucks and mauls (Even when badly reffed this would creat
more space for attack)
2) Accidently collapsed scrum when the ball is at the back - compulsory free
kick to the team in  possession (stops a lot of unnecessary re-sets)
3) Uncontested mark in 22 - scrum with feed to defending team from where the
ball was kicked (should help reduce aimless kicking)
4) Unsuccessful dropped goal - Penalty from middle of 22 ( Makes players
think twice about the"soft" option, and makes the 3 points if successful
more worthwhile)
The one thing that has not changed is the ethos of the game . The
friendships, the camararderie, the socialising, the travel, being able to
sit next to rabid supporters but still share a joke and a laugh even when
your team loses. This is the biggest thing that non Rugby folk miss out on.
 Cheers Phil
Lots of reasons for this, the two titans of Aussie rugby are boring
being the main one.
NSW are just a boring team these days. Sorry, but they are. They play
like robots.
These days? You'd have to think back to '91 to find an interesting NSW
side.

Before McKensie, NSW were a rabble for years in the super12. Horrible
year after year after year.

Then, once McKenzie took over, he developed a very solid forward pack:
great defense, good set piece, good discipline, good rolling maul,
good breakdown. As much as could be expected given the material he had
to work with. He's a good forwards coach. Unfortunately he couldn't
coach a backline to save his life. His backline decisions have been
nothing short of COMPLETELY FUCKED and in the process he's ground
through three backline coaches, or was it four.

For a couple years the forwards comfortably outscored the backs. Palu
was the highest try scorer, etc.

They looked like a traditional South African side without a good
kicking game.

This year, under Hickey, the Waratahs forwards have done surprisingly
well given the change in guard. I suspect it's McKensie's echo still
there and sheer force of personality from Waugh.

But Hickey has done nothing to improve the backline play. Nothing.
They must be the "narrowest" team in the super14 and Hickey has to
take the blame for that because it's clearly a tactical thing. It's
not helped by selecting Jesus at 10, of course. The whole thing is
fucking hopeless and really disappointing because Hickey came in with
good "attacking rugby" credentials but he's sold out to safety.

And that's the rub. NSW rugby supporters expect positive,
constructive, attacking, running rugby. That's what, traditionally,
NSW teams have been about. So when the press gets stuck into the
Waratahs over their "boring" style, they are really saying "you guys
have moved away from our Rugby roots and we don't like it".
Supporters will wear a move away from roots if it yields a tournament
win, i guess. But if you fall short of that AND you've turned Rugby
boring, then you're going to get castigated. Makes me angry.

From here ...

The Tahs managed to jag a couple of fortunate, narrow wins in the
first three rounds when they probably didn't deserve them and that's
the reason they are in the position they are now. But the wheels are
falling off. They won't make the top 4. They look a mid-table team to
me, no more.

Hickey will belatedly try to add some width, but it will be too late.
Post by Bobs
Queensland are a shadow of their great (or at least good) 1990's team.
They won the Super Ten twice. Now they barely win a game. And they're
even more boring.
Are you mad? The Reds are great this year. I love watching them.
Positive, interesting Rugby. Team of young players giving it a go. If
they keep going as they are, they'll become a good team, i think.
Nothing robotic about them at all.

With one more year of experience, and some players returning from the
Force, the reds next year could be great, I think.

Right now, (ignoring the table position) I'd prefer to be a Red
supporter than a Waratah's supporter. It's just more interesting
watching the Reds.
Post by Bobs
Say what you like about the Blues, but they're never boring. Currently
conceded and scored the most tries.
They're the new Hurricanes.


--Mike
p***@gmail.com
2009-04-18 10:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Thompson
Post by Bobs
Post by Big P
I appologise for the length of this reply
Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years. I have been attending Waratah home games since 1996 and notice a sign
of increasing frustration even among the diehards. In Sydney Rugby has only
one flagship team - the Waratahs. There has not been an "inspirational" or
exiting game at the SFS for several years. The Waratahs seem quite lethargic
ambling up to linouts in slo mo even when needing to play catch up with time
running out when they are behind. There appears a total lack of urgency, and
this has been evident for several seasons.Even last year making the finals
seemed a non event as a win by the Crusaders seemed inevitable. The Crusader
domination has made the comp boring. Even the RL crowds in NZ seem higher
that the big S12 games. SA has some good crowds but as the Lions and the
Cheetahs seemingly being inept has made those games a turn off, especially
when shown at 2am in Oz - No wonder only 1900 watched such a Brumbies game
on Fox the other week. The Reds have been cellar dwellers for several years
The move to Suncorp from Ballymore seems to be a failure as the ground
appears almost empty. The Force had initial great support but their onfield
performances have been too erratic. The Quokka incident and the Firepower
fiasco could not have happened at a worse time and apparently the fans are
turned off by games at the round Subiaco Oval  as the spectators are too far
from the field. Maybe the chance to play at the new rectangular stadium will
help (whenever it comes on line). The fact that Matt Giteau is leaving will
not help though. The Brumbies do not seem to have recovered from the loss of
Gregan and Larkham as well as Joe Roff, Jeremy Paul and other high profile
players. Mortlock and Smith are at the end of there careers and there are no
"household names" to take their place, apart from the return of Giteau.
The AFL and NRL have the artificial draft + salary cap which tends to make
the talent spread fairly even amongst all the teams. RL gets about 6 pages
of coverage in the Telegraph compaired to 1/2  to 1 page on Rugby. Matches
between OS teams get 1 sentence usually describing the result.The newspaper
coverage of school games and club matches is now virtually non existant.
Club game attendances seem to be waning, and it will be interesting to see
if this changes with the filtering back oh S14 and Wallaby players. A big
problem is that apart from the occasional test there is no free to air
coverage which limits the exposure of the code to potentional new converts.
A few years ago a Joey's v  Riverview game on ABC outrated a Swans game! In
Sydney the NSWRU seems to have abandoned the west and north west to League
and AFL. The local public schools rarely get promotional visits etc.
The Wallabies themselves have been uninspiring for a few years as well, with
only occasional challenges to the Boks and Blacks. The rot really set in
with the pedestrian  performance at RWC 2007. Though financially successful
and ratings successful (in NH) the tournament was seen as a dud in the SH.
The improvement in teams such as Argentina, Georgia and some of the Pacific
nations was a boon, but the big games weer often disappointing. The terrible
Wallabies v Boks game at the Olympic Stadium was a disaster, as was removing
the Bledisloe Cup from Sydney for 2 years. Even this traditional highlight
has suffered with the game last year in Sydney  well short of selling out.
The fact that this series is now stretched to 4 games a year is a worry, and
as pointed out in the Herald's editorial today a de-valuing of the product.
ANZ stadium has become a major turn off, (other codes included) as it is a
soul-less wasteland. The pressure to increase the Bledisloe games to try to
make money is understandable, but this is compounded by the European teams
arriving pre the Tri-nations being B or C teams lacking in top name players
and in fact a waste of time and attracting diminishing crowds.
As is also pointed out in the Herald Editorial the game itself has become a
turn off. It needs "sexing up" it is not a trendy place to be. The ELVs are
not the universal panacea they were hoped to be. Matches are still often
decided by inconsistent referees who still think that the game revolves
around them (Has Matt Goddard learned is lesson?) A lot of bonus points are
also decided by dodgy refereeing as well.
The ELVs are a big improvement but do not go far enough. A lot of going over
the top and bridging is permitted as is coming in from the side. The
abandoning of rucking has been a disaster as the breakdown now resembles a
gridiorn type arrangement with minimal forwards commited to the ruck. Too
often the game stops with the ball sitting at the back of the  ruck while
the half decides what to do. If a player does try to contest by coming
through the gate and counter-rucking he is penalised for off side. The
abandonment of the rolling maul has aggravated this. The problem previosly
was that Refs hardly ever called "use it" when the maul stopped or went
backwards from good defensive play, and the usual result was a penalty for
pulling down the maul which had become a legalised form of truck and
trailer.
Defense has become much more dominant, and this has not been helped by the
Refs again , (and "Assistant" Refs ) not enforcing the "locks feet" law.
This is especially noticible when play is close to the line. Often the
banana defence results in the outside centre caught behind the gain line. A
lot of this results in the tendency for kicking, which often is of poor
quality, especially the Aussie teams.
The tap kick/penalty debate seems to be the most controversial NH v SH
argument but this is a sideshow. In a recent match Dickinson threatened to
revert from tap kicks to full arm penalties because of repeated
infringements. Is he allowed to do this under the laws, or is the only
option the dreaded Yellow Card? (Matt Goddard Sic)
The changes I feel the ELVs neglected
1) 5 metre  law at rucks and mauls (Even when badly reffed this would creat
more space for attack)
2) Accidently collapsed scrum when the ball is at the back - compulsory free
kick to the team in  possession (stops a lot of unnecessary re-sets)
3) Uncontested mark in 22 - scrum with feed to defending team from where the
ball was kicked (should help reduce aimless kicking)
4) Unsuccessful dropped goal - Penalty from middle of 22 ( Makes players
think twice about the"soft" option, and makes the 3 points if successful
more worthwhile)
The one thing that has not changed is the ethos of the game . The
friendships, the camararderie, the socialising, the travel, being able to
sit next to rabid supporters but still share a joke and a laugh even when
your team loses. This is the biggest thing that non Rugby folk miss out on.
 Cheers Phil
Lots of reasons for this, the two titans of Aussie rugby are boring
being the main one.
NSW are just a boring team these days. Sorry, but they are. They play
like robots.
These days? You'd have to think back to '91 to find an interesting NSW
side.
Before McKensie, NSW were a rabble for years in the super12.  Horrible
year after year after year.
great defense, good set piece, good discipline, good rolling maul,
good breakdown. As much as could be expected given the material he had
to work with.  He's a good forwards coach.  Unfortunately he couldn't
coach a backline to save his life. His backline decisions have been
nothing short of COMPLETELY FUCKED and in the process he's ground
through three backline coaches, or was it four.
For a couple years the forwards comfortably outscored the backs. Palu
was the highest try scorer, etc.
They looked like a traditional South African side without a good
kicking game.
This year, under Hickey, the Waratahs forwards have done surprisingly
well given the change in guard.  I suspect it's McKensie's echo still
there and sheer force of personality from Waugh.
But Hickey has done nothing to improve the backline play.  Nothing.
They must be the "narrowest" team in the super14 and Hickey has to
take the blame for that because it's clearly a tactical thing.  It's
not helped by selecting Jesus at 10, of course.  The whole thing is
fucking hopeless and really disappointing because Hickey came in with
good "attacking rugby" credentials but he's sold out to safety.
And that's the rub.  NSW rugby supporters expect positive,
constructive, attacking, running rugby. That's what, traditionally,
NSW teams have been about. So when the press gets stuck into the
Waratahs over their "boring" style, they are really saying "you guys
have moved away from our Rugby roots and we don't like it".
Supporters will wear a move away from roots if it yields a tournament
win, i guess. But if you fall short of that AND you've turned Rugby
boring, then you're going to get castigated. Makes me angry.
From here ...
The Tahs managed to jag a couple of fortunate, narrow wins in the
first three rounds when they probably didn't deserve them and that's
the reason they are in the position they are now. But the wheels are
falling off. They won't make the top 4. They look a mid-table team to
me, no more.
Hickey will belatedly try to add some width, but it will be too late.
Post by Bobs
Queensland are a shadow of their great (or at least good) 1990's team.
They won the Super Ten twice. Now they barely win a game. And they're
even more boring.
Are you mad? The Reds are great this year.  I love watching them.
Positive, interesting Rugby.  Team of young players giving it a go. If
they keep going as they are, they'll become a good team, i think.
Nothing robotic about them at all.
With one more year of experience, and some players returning from the
Force, the reds next year could be great, I think.
Right now, (ignoring the table position) I'd prefer to be a Red
supporter than a Waratah's supporter.  It's just more interesting
watching the Reds.
Right now I'm fighting the urge to hang myself; being, however
reluctantly, a Reds supporter and watching them get BITCHSLAPPED at
home by the Lions will do that.

Thank the gods me 'n the missus were outta town last nite & hence not
tempted to make the trek down to Lang Park so soon after driving
home. It was sufficiently soul-destroying just watching it ont'telly.

Mind you, it wasn't boring.

More along the lines of gut-wrenching and excruciating...


CP
Mike Thompson
2009-04-18 10:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by p***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Thompson
Right now, (ignoring the table position) I'd prefer to be a Red
supporter than a Waratah's supporter.  It's just more interesting
watching the Reds.
Right now I'm fighting the urge to hang myself; being, however
reluctantly, a Reds supporter and watching them get BITCHSLAPPED at
home by the Lions will do that.
Thank the gods me 'n the missus were outta town last nite & hence not
tempted to make the trek down to Lang Park so soon after driving
home.  It was sufficiently soul-destroying just watching it ont'telly.
Mind you, it wasn't boring.
More along the lines of gut-wrenching and excruciating...
Worst Reds performance of the year. To date, anyway.

--
Mike
p***@gmail.com
2009-04-18 21:34:12 UTC
Permalink
On Apr 18, 8:31 pm, Mike Thompson <***@gmail.com> wrote:

(Snip)
Worst Reds performance of the year.  To date, anyway.
"To date". That phrase fills me with a sense of grim foreboding. Or
fiveboding. AND I promised th' missus I'd buy decent seats at the
next Reds home game...


CP

d***@gmail.com
2009-04-16 20:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big P
I appologise for the length of this reply
Rugby seems to be going AOK in the NH with good crowds good atmosphere etc
In the SH there has been a decline in all three especially over the past few
years.
I would not generalise and apply Australian experience to SA.
The Bulls, Sharks and Stormers still turn out good crowds week after
week. The highest in the S14 by miles.Yes viewership is off a bit but
I think that is attributable to too much rugby.
In the past I used to watch 2 or 3 games a week-end but now there
simply isn't the time as the S14 (soon to be S15) runs into Lions tour
which runs into 3N which runs into Currie Cup which runs into EoY
Tour. Short break and start again.

Our Currie Cup in SA is successful as long as its not an expanded
league (max 8 sides, pref 6) and the Boks are available.

Australia have always struggled in these departments. The playing leve
has always way exceeded their cpmmercial success.
alvey
2009-04-18 08:59:26 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 00:38:28 +1000, Big P wrote:

snip

Two points, one For and one Against:

1. RU is doomed to be a defensive slog now that forwards aren't fatsos who
run out of puff after 10 minutes. Fifteen is just too many bodies for the
attack to get through. Especially with the lengthy and frequent stoppages
in RU that give everyone a rest. Compare the numbers per side to other
codes using the same size paddock. RL 13, soccer @ US footie 11. 15 is just
too many.

2. On the bright side for Aust RU, successive government's policies of
privatising education is resulting in an ever increasing percentage of kids
being driven into the clutches of the private schools, who generally have
the same tolerance of RL that Hitler had for Jews.



alvey
Big P
2009-04-16 21:56:37 UTC
Permalink
To repeat here from Oz, crowds in NH seem great. But is Rugby making money?
Apparently in France the game is funded by "wealthy industrialists" but may
not be generating the income to justify the high player payments etc. Is
this the same in the UK?

A big problem in Oz is the lack of FTA TV, and the combined Telegraph/Nine
marketing push for RL. RL is a total bore yet its supporters are conditioned
to think it is the "greatest game of all". Fans are quite prepared to
totally support sexual molesters, etc with no problem. And all RL types
journos, commentators,players, supporters seem compelled to rubbish RU and
re-inforce these myths. Yet on the other hand senior RU types, players,
coaches are often praising RL, especially SOO. Even if the Wallabies win the
RWC there is only a sort of grudging acknowledgement from the Leaugue world.
Soccer on the otherhand is now always seen in a positive light simply
because they actually made the world cup. This is also helped by the natural
tendency of Aussies to identify with the underdog, and in world soccer the
Socceroos are seen as minnows who are punching above their weight. And the
RL media machine is not as threatened by them as they are by Rugby who are
basically competing for the same hearts and minds, junior players etc. It
does not help that apart from the Brumbies 2 wins in 13 seasons teh Rugby
"powerhouse" areas NSW and Qld have never been dominant.

Traditionally RU has abandoned western Sydney as I have said. The biggest
threat ther now is AFL who poor buckets of cash into juniors, visit schools
doing promo stuff. Even RL are worried. The Waratahs are wedded to the SFS
which is very constrictive (and helps re-inforce the myth that it is a game
for the "leather elbow patch brigade"). Rather than playing at Homebush, a
disaster area, it would be great if they played some games at Parramatta
Stadium or the Central Coast. The NZ and SA franchises seem to have some
games away from the main stadiums but this seems impossible in Oz.

The implications of the poor crowds and poor TV ratings is that Pay TV will
reduce the value of the contracts they sign in 2110. This means less money
to pay players and could increase the flow of top players to Europe (which
has also already affected the marketability of the S14) unless those unions
put a cap on imports. Ther could also be a return to the days when RL can
easily poach players from RU.

Traditionally the NH seem very insular, and in a way they may like to se the
Wallabies,Boks and ABs weakened as it would give them a better chance to win
games against them. Is this the reason why RU has never been successful in
the USA which should be a powerhouse. The real success story is Argentina
(with limited local professionalism) who are still excluded from main stream
competitions apart from RWC. But in the SH as well, logistics and transport
costs are much more of a consideration than in the NH. I cannot see that
starting up a team in Japan or another team in Melbourne and further delete
the talent pool will help the game in Oz, but this seems to be the whole
philosophy of the powers that be - that morte is good rather than that
better is good.

Cheesr Phil
Andrew Dunford
2009-04-16 22:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big P
To repeat here from Oz, crowds in NH seem great. But is Rugby making
money? Apparently in France the game is funded by "wealthy industrialists"
but may not be generating the income to justify the high player payments
etc. Is this the same in the UK?
A big problem in Oz is the lack of FTA TV, and the combined Telegraph/Nine
marketing push for RL. RL is a total bore yet its supporters are
conditioned to think it is the "greatest game of all". Fans are quite
prepared to totally support sexual molesters, etc with no problem. And all
RL types journos, commentators,players, supporters seem compelled to
rubbish RU and re-inforce these myths. Yet on the other hand senior RU
types, players, coaches are often praising RL, especially SOO. Even if the
Wallabies win the RWC there is only a sort of grudging acknowledgement
from the Leaugue world. Soccer on the otherhand is now always seen in a
positive light simply because they actually made the world cup. This is
also helped by the natural tendency of Aussies to identify with the
underdog, and in world soccer the Socceroos are seen as minnows who are
punching above their weight. And the RL media machine is not as threatened
by them as they are by Rugby who are basically competing for the same
hearts and minds, junior players etc. It does not help that apart from the
Brumbies 2 wins in 13 seasons teh Rugby "powerhouse" areas NSW and Qld
have never been dominant.
Traditionally RU has abandoned western Sydney as I have said. The biggest
threat ther now is AFL who poor buckets of cash into juniors, visit
schools doing promo stuff. Even RL are worried. The Waratahs are wedded to
the SFS which is very constrictive (and helps re-inforce the myth that it
is a game for the "leather elbow patch brigade"). Rather than playing at
Homebush, a disaster area, it would be great if they played some games at
Parramatta Stadium or the Central Coast. The NZ and SA franchises seem to
have some games away from the main stadiums but this seems impossible in
Oz.
The NZ teams do this not because they want to, but in recognition of the
make-up of each franchise. The Hurricanes, for example, represent something
like nine separate provincial rugby unions covering the lower half of the
North Island thus occasionally feel obliged to take matches away from
Wellington, although they usually lose money in doing so. The dynamic is
slightly different at the Highlanders, where they might as well play home
matches at Invercargill (and even one at Palmerston North!) because nobody
is turning up in Dunedin.

Interesting to read your comments about the lack of FTA television. This
battle was lost so long ago in NZ that nobody ever questions paying for
sport on television any more.

This is not me gloating, BTW. Crowds at matches in NZ are very poor.

<snip>

Andrew
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