Discussion:
Boring, boring England.
(too old to reply)
SD
2008-03-03 20:59:59 UTC
Permalink
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations2006statisticalreport_4422.pdf

Page 13.

6N pens v tries 2000-2006

Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55

... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
simon s-b
2008-03-03 21:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
        Pen     Try     t/p
En       85     133     1.56
Wa       83      79     0.95
Ir      108      95     0.88
Fr      112      98     0.88
It       73      45     0.62
Sc       85      47     0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Mike
2008-03-03 21:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as
they alledge England's rugby was.

Mike
Uncle Bully
2008-03-04 07:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...
simon s-b
2008-03-04 08:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
        Pen     Try     t/p
En       85     133     1.56
Wa       83      79     0.95
Ir      108      95     0.88
Fr      112      98     0.88
It       73      45     0.62
Sc       85      47     0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Uncle Bully
2008-03-04 10:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.


Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?

Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.
Will
2008-03-04 17:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Some might consider England boring. And I being Irish in America did not
like around 1995 and before when the ball seemed to stop at #10 with a
kick for field position. Although I do admit I loved their rolling mall
then with Richards (was it) at #8. But, all in all, I am not an English
fan, being Irish as I am, but I do appreciate the defense of the rugby
they be playing now. And I saw the England vs France game here in
America and had to say they won fair and square, despite some
misjudgments, on the whole and they did it with defense and tackling and
I give it to them there despite tipping the French and feeling I had a
sure winner with the French side.
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.
Uncle Dave
2008-03-04 17:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mike
2008-03-04 17:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.
As the thread is about the try/penalty points ratio and the 6n is not
over I'm sure even you can see simons point.

Mike
simon s-b
2008-03-04 19:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.

Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.

Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
didgerman
2008-03-04 21:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
One box of crayola's finest coming right up.
Walter Mitty
2008-03-04 21:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by didgerman
Post by simon s-b
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
One box of crayola's finest coming right up.
Better make it the fat ones. Its the only way Bully will be able to hold
them.
Road_Hog
2008-03-04 22:57:40 UTC
Permalink
"simon s-b" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:a4a9d444-923c-49dd-b863-***@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...


Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.

Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.

Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?

Okay, some recent stats from page 11, BTW I do love statistics.

"An interesting point to note is that England's total try count
has declined in each of the last 6 years - from 29 in 2001,
to 23 in 2002, 18 in 2003, 17 in 2004 , 16 in 2005 and 12 in
2006."

Three matches gone, 5 tries scored and two matches to go.
Uncle Bully
2008-03-05 08:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
Okay, some recent stats from page 11, BTW I do love statistics.
"An interesting point to note is that England's total try count
has declined in each of the last 6 years - from 29 in 2001,
to 23 in 2002, 18 in 2003, 17 in 2004 , 16 in 2005 and 12 in
2006."
Three matches gone, 5 tries scored and two matches to go.
Yet even by Simon's own stats, the 6N average is 4+ tries per game.
Why o why do we pick on those poor Englishmen all the time...
didgerman
2008-03-05 09:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
Okay, some recent stats from page 11, BTW I do love statistics.
"An interesting point to note is that England's total try count
has declined in each of the last 6 years - from 29 in 2001,
to 23 in 2002, 18 in 2003, 17 in 2004 , 16 in 2005 and 12 in
2006."
Three matches gone, 5 tries scored and two matches to go.
Yeah, but we're hard.
Mr.Will
2008-03-05 13:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
Okay, some recent stats from page 11, BTW I do love statistics.
"An interesting point to note is that England's total try count
has declined in each of the last 6 years - from 29 in 2001,
to 23 in 2002, 18 in 2003, 17 in 2004 , 16 in 2005 and 12 in
2006."
Three matches gone, 5 tries scored and two matches to go.
Out if interest how are the other countries averaging?
I did skim read the thing, it gave great praise to how many times the Irish
forwards passed the ball etc. Im sure someone finds it compelling reading.

Mr.Will
Road_Hog
2008-03-05 16:46:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr.Will
Out if interest how are the other countries averaging?
I did skim read the thing, it gave great praise to how many times the
Irish forwards passed the ball etc. Im sure someone finds it compelling
reading.
Mr.Will
They're stats, don't read too much in to them. I posted the bit about
England out of badness. But if you look, 2001 equates to an average of
almost 6 tries per match, which isn't really sustainable. Plus, without
checking I imagine a lot of them came from the Italy match and it isn't so
easy to get so many tries against them now.

I would be concerned about the recent trend and the fact that the figure
will probably go lower this year as you've already played Italy.
Mr.Will
2008-03-05 18:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road_Hog
Post by Mr.Will
Out if interest how are the other countries averaging?
I did skim read the thing, it gave great praise to how many times the
Irish forwards passed the ball etc. Im sure someone finds it compelling
reading.
Mr.Will
They're stats, don't read too much in to them. I posted the bit about
England out of badness. But if you look, 2001 equates to an average of
almost 6 tries per match, which isn't really sustainable. Plus, without
checking I imagine a lot of them came from the Italy match and it isn't so
easy to get so many tries against them now.
I would be concerned about the recent trend and the fact that the figure
will probably go lower this year as you've already played Italy.
I hear what you're saying - however for me its a case of what results can
this team get!
After the first two games it looked pretty woeful - now there is some
potential to finish having gotten somewhere!

Mr.Will
Mike
2008-03-05 18:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.
Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
Okay, some recent stats from page 11, BTW I do love statistics.
"An interesting point to note is that England's total try count
has declined in each of the last 6 years - from 29 in 2001,
to 23 in 2002, 18 in 2003, 17 in 2004 , 16 in 2005 and 12 in
2006."
Three matches gone, 5 tries scored and two matches to go.
Italy and wales have got a lot better since 2001 - they both were
gatting walloped at the turn of the century padding out the the old try
stats somewhat Both have got better since and england have got much
worse.

Mike
Uncle Bully
2008-03-05 07:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by simon s-b
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Post by simon s-b
Post by SD
According to the IRB, last 6N was the first time that England scored
more penalties than tries in the tournament.
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/0/irbgameanalysis-sixnations...
Page 13.
6N pens v tries 2000-2006
Pen Try t/p
En 85 133 1.56
Wa 83 79 0.95
Ir 108 95 0.88
Fr 112 98 0.88
It 73 45 0.62
Sc 85 47 0.55
... and they're likely to still be the only team in credit after this
season's matches.
It's something we've pointed out often here, but facts are irrelevant
mostly. There's no denying that we've had a bit of a scarcity in the
last couple of years though.
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against Italy
and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Post by Mike
It seems the thinking of some people on RSRU is as one dimensional as they
alledge England's rugby was.
Yes, yes they are...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Dully, the point is that they are considerably better than the French
and the Welsh, who nobody ever calls boring.
Is this the same Wales and France that are beating England in the 6N right
now?
The same Wales and France that between them have won the last 4 6N titles?
Please explain your definition of 'considerably better' as mine seems to
differ from yours.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Englands try:penalty ratio is 1.56, ie they have averaged 1.56 tries
per penalty.
Wales have more penalties than tries.
France have more penalties than tries.

Therefore, Englands try penalty ratio is "considerably better" than
that of Wales or France, who nobody calls boring.



Well clearly one would conclude that there's more to being exciting than
simply the raw try count.






Is that clear enough for you or do you need a pretty picture?
Hognoxious
2008-03-07 23:22:32 UTC
Permalink
"Uncle Bully" <***@optushome.com.au.remove> wrote in message news:47ce4f9b$0$5200$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
...
Post by Uncle Bully
Well clearly one would conclude that there's more to being exciting than
simply the raw try count.
Heresy!

Hognoxious
2008-03-07 23:17:39 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Uncle Bully
Post by Mike
Yes I did some oob type stats a couple of years ago and england scored
more tries than any other 6N team and scored most of their points from
tries and that was when wilcos boot ruled all.
And I remember that when you take out second divison matchups against
Italy and Scotland, England's stats were just as crap as they are today.
Yes, they need to rearrange the competition so that other teams get a chance
to go on a turkey shoot against the jocks and wops too.

It's only fair.
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...